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Wednesday, September 11, 2013

TESTING THE FOCAL PRICE 2700 KV MOTOR

Hi everyone -

Just got back from the field doing some great testing on a new motor (new for me anyway) on my F18. I was testing the Focal Price 2700 Kv motor that Jay (Boxermad84) has been using for a while and that Greg (F1wanabe) used with great success on his Mig29 V3 on both 2 and 3S setups.

Here is the link to the motor

http://www.focalprice.com/YO090X/A2212_2700KV_Outrunner_Brushless_Motor_for_Airplane.html


The stats on this motor are that it's max current is 25A, so I left the Turnigy Plush 30A ESC in the plane that I had been using with the MJV3.


The numbers from the wattmeter -
6x3 prop - 28A/304W
6x4 prop - 38A/444W (don't get too excited just yet, more on this later...o_O)


Based on advice from Greg and Jay, I only used EMP props on this motor, I wanted to compare the 6x3 and 6x4 EMP props for performance to see if there was a difference.


So the new numbers for this plane with this new motor are AUW with the 1600 Mah battery, 517 gr/18.24 oz, wing loading 5.5 oz/sq ft, using the number 30 for oz of thrust that Greg mentioned in his Mig 29V3 video for a 3s, my thrust to weight is 1.6:1 (me likey a lot!)


I did shoot some video of the plane on 6x3 and 6x4, it is processing now so should be ready to upload later today.


All I can say is WOW! What a great setup for this plane at this weight, significant increase in speed, punch out power and vertical for only 12 grams gain in weight! Fortunately it was very calm, so I was able to do some high alpha, it flew high alpha like a dream (well, maybe a nightmare, my high alpha skills need a lot of work...:rolleyes:)


On the 6x3 prop I was getting good solid 5 minute flights on a 1600 battery, 7:30 on a 2200 (with very little impact on performance with the extra weight), so I am excited to get my 1800 batteries as I think from watching Jay's videos that will be the ideal battery for this motor to get good solid flights and the extra weight will help in the windier conditions. I was able to cruise around comfortably at 50% throttle. When I landed, the motor was a bit warm to the touch, as was the ESC, but nothing abnormal and the battery was cool (my 1600s are 30-40C discharge).


So on the second test, I swapped out for the 6x4 prop. I would have to say noticeably a bit more speed and punch with the 6x4, and still cruising comfortably at half throttle, excellent aerobatics. However, upon landing, the motor was very warm, too warm for my liking as was the ESC. The Turnigy Plush ESC is rated to handle bursts of 40A, so when I saw 38A on the wattmeter, I went ahead anyway, but I was probably pushing the ESC and motor harder than they need to be, and extended use of the 6x4 with my flying style would probably end up in premature burnout of the motor, ESC and/or both.


So, the big winning combination is definitely the 6x3 EMP prop, I loved how this plane handled with this setup!:) Not that I didn't like it with the MJV3, but my confidence was so much higher knowing I had that extra power at my fingertips for such a small gain in weight, but exceptional gain in performance!


I know Jay and Greg have said this in the past and I second...well I guess third:oops: ...their strong recommendation not to use a 6x4 APC on this motor, my feeling after seeing what it did with the 6x4 EMP, the extra agressive bite of the APC prop would burn this motor out pretty quick.


I don't know why I waited so long to try this motor out, but I am very glad I did and given it is $11.89 USD and Focal Price offers worldwide free shipping, I can use a 30A ESC and get that kind of performance, it is a big winner in my books, especially with that much extra power for only a 12 gram/0.42oz gain in weight!


I plan on testing more motors and setups on this plane over the days and weeks to come, but this Focal Price 2700 Kv motor on a 6x3 EMP prop has set the bar pretty high in my humble opinion.


Just for info, the best price I have been able to find on EMP props is from RC Timer, you can get them in bulk packs of 5 for $4.49 http://www.rctimer.com/index.php?gOo=goods_details.dwt&goodsid=218&productname=, but I strongly encourage you to balance them. I will be writing up another report on this thread about the importance of making sure the prop you put on is balanced story http://www.rcpowers.com/community/threads/balancing-a-prop-video.13088/page-2#post-191861


I just installed the RC Timer BC 2212/6 motor in the F18 which I hope to test tomorrow
http://www.rctimer.com/index.php?gOo=goods_details.dwt&goodsid=116&productname=  Some feedback I read on the RC Timer website was that one person got more thrust from a 6x3 EMP prop, 32 oz in fact and 28 oz on a 6x4 APC, so I hope to test the 6x4 APC, and the 6x3 and 6x4 EMPs.  I will still run the Turnigy Plush 30A ESC and 1600 battery for the test to see what I get.  Never used this motor before, so I am excited to see what it can do.

With the new motor, my AUW with a 1600 Mah battery is 518 gr/18.27 oz, so basically the same as with the Focal Price 2700 Kv.

Update on the F22 V3 build, wing plate and fuselage are together, belly plate and bottom fuse on, just waiting for the glue to all dry up, will probably start installing electronics and gluing on the Kf airfoils next.  Will be using 2 RC Timer 9gr metal gear servos for the elevons and 4 plastic gear servos for the ailerons and rudders to save some weight.

Cheers,

Scott

6 comments:

  1. Hi Scott,

    I REALLY want to try out this combination of the FP 2700 with the EMP 6x3, and 40A Turnigy ESC that you've been recommending for the V3/V4 size planes. The only problem is whenever I click on the link to there website the motor is always sold out. I was wondering if you were having the same trouble, or if there was someplace else I should be looking? Hopefully there just having trouble with availability now and this is just a temporary thing while they restock.

    Thanks,
    RT

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    Replies
    1. Hi RT -

      Yes, they have been sold out for several weeks now, I have been in search of an alternative source and may have found one, but I'm still waiting to receive the motor so I can test it.

      It is from another large online warehouse from China or Hong Kong I believe called Deal Extreme (DX). http://www.dx.com/p/a2212s-2700kv-outrunner-brushless-motor-45134#.VCw9d2ddXkV I know the motor in the picture doesn't look the same, but when I compare the specs and the price, it leads me to believe it is the same motor, just sold by a different vendor.

      When I read the one review on it, the person said it came in gold, not black, again another clue it might be the same motor. As soon as I get mine from DX, I will be testing it and posting results here on the blog.

      Like Focal Price, DX gives a good discount the more you buy, I only bought one this time in case it is not the right motor, but if it is, I buy them in lots of at least 3 at a time (they have a tab for details on how to get the bulk discount), it saves a few bucks. The free shipping is very slow though, I don't anticipating seeing my motor for a couple more weeks, it is about 4-6 weeks shipping from places like FP, DX and RC Timer, what you save in shipping cost, you pay for in shipping time.

      More to follow when the package arrives from DX.

      Cheers,

      Scott

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  2. Scott-

    I'll have to check the spreadsheet you made but were you getting just the motors from places like FP , DX, and RC Timer? It seems like one could substitute a lengthy China delivery for most everything else, but that motor sure seems to be 'Gold' from the things you've written about it, and I really want to try one out this time. Want to hear something funny?... I was trying to check in with the RCP website earlier and it seems there having some kind of problem and I cant connect to it at the moment. Thankfully Im in touch with this fantastic resource you've created so my RC time this morning has been spent looking through the blog which is always a good thing!

    Thanks,
    RT

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    Replies
    1. Hi RT -

      One of the things about all the testing I did last year was that it narrowed down my choices of motors. For most of my planes of this size, I really like the Focal Price 2700 Kv motor, I haven't bought anything from DX yet, I am hoping it will be an alternate supply source from Focal Price once I get the motor in the mail and test it out. As we have probably all experienced with Hobby King, sometimes when these vendors are out of certain items, it can take weeks to get them back in stock.

      The Focal Price 2700/6x3 EMP prop/40A ESC combo is ideal for how I like to fly. It is hard to argue with the price, the power, the acceleration. Granted it is not as efficient as some motors (flights might not be as long), needs a 40A ESC instead of a 30A (so a little more weight (about 8 gr) needs to be carried), but when you consider it weighs the same as the D2826/6 motor from HK but cranks out 6-8 more oz of thrust and has much better pop and acceleration for aerobatics because of the higher Kv, it is tough to beat, but that is just my opinion.

      For planes where I really want some high speed and that sort of "V8 power", I still use the Hobby King NTM Prop Drive 2700 Kv motor with a 6x4 APC prop.

      Essentially the FP and NTM 2700 motors are all I use in my planes right now.

      RC Timer does have a comparable motor to the popular Turnigy D2826/6 motor and some other motors like their 2208/8 2600 Kv motor which is like a MJV3 from Grayson Hobby on steroids. If I had a really lightweight plane like a profile where I wanted lightweight power, the RCT 2208/8 2600 Kv motor would be a great choice. For planes in the 16-18 oz range, the RCT 2208/8 motor is a great choice.

      RC Timer has become a great source for servos, both metal gear and nylon gear, the EMP props, quick connects for my servos, Y connectors, servo extension wires and the prop collet for the FP motor as the one it comes with is a bit hit or miss as to whether it can be tightened enough.

      I'll be talking a bit more about this stuff in my soon to be released build video on the FRC Foamies Su35 MK2. Interesting about the RC Powers site, I remember when I was still there they had issues like that once in awhile, server problems maybe?

      Always glad to hear that the blog is a good source of information for you, thanks as always for your kind feedback... :)

      Just one last thought on vendors like FP, DX and RCT, because of the lengthy delivery time, I always order extra goodies so that I have at least enough stuff on hand to build two planes in the event I get the "building bug". This way I don't suffer the frustration of waiting around. Now that I have made enough orders, I find I just recycle stuff from one plane to the next most times, so my orders are less frequent.

      Cheers,

      Scott



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  3. Hi Scott-

    Hopefully I'll have some building time available this weekend, I gotta get off my butt and get started. My B-day is in 9 days and my wife keeps bugging me because I told her I would be ordering supplies for this build as my gift ( which I still haven't done yet).

    Anyway I thought I'd mention I just took a leap of faith and ordered that motor from DX. I don't have the testing equipment that you do but I figured before DX runs out of them too, I better get one. Its only $12 so I figure even if it turns out to be not a good replacement for the FP version, its not such a big loss. I've redesigned the tail plate of the V3 Mig to have a similar fixed horizontal stab assembly like the V4 does, as well as V4 styled ailerons, so we'll see how it all goes.

    talk to you later,
    RT

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    Replies
    1. Hi RT -

      Hope you get a chance to start building soon, always nice to get started on a new project.

      I hope to have that new DX motor soon and will post results ASAP after I get it, I am feeling confident it is the same motor, both vendors seem to carry a lot of the same products.

      As you may know, if it is the same motor, you will need to solder on some bullet connectors as the motor doesn't come with them. Also, if the collet/bullet nut doesn't tighten enough to hold on the prop, you can use the one from the D2826/6 motor if you have a spare. I order extra collets from RC Timer http://www.rctimer.com/product-580.html I just noticed as I was getting this link from RC Timer they are celebrating National Day holiday, so anything you order from them won't be sent out till after 7 Oct.

      I like how your mods are going on your V3, as you have probably read from Stephan's recent post flight report, the slightly longer in span but narrower in chord ailerons seem to work more efficiently than our first variant on the NAMC V1. Dimensions for the latest aileron mod we have tested and find to work awesome are in this post http://migsrus.blogspot.ca/2014/08/work-has-begun-on-my-new-rcp-mig2935.html

      You may actually find that depending on how you like to fly that even though the surfaces are smaller, you can dial down the throws a bit as they are more efficient, create less turbulence and less drag. Both Stephan and I find they give much more precise control over our planes, at least for the flying we like to do. We would be very interested to hear what you think, the more feedback we get on the mods helps keep the database of info healthy or gives us other ideas to try other variations.

      Good luck and if I don't speak to you before, Happy Birthday... :)

      Cheers,

      Scott

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