FIELD TESTING OF THE GRAYSON HOBBY SSV2 MOTOR IN MY F18 V3

Hi everyone -

I tested another motor in my RCP F18 V3 testbed plane today, probably the last motor I will test for a while... :)

Today I tested the Grayson Hobby Supersonic V2 (SSV2) 2212-6 2200 Kv motorhttp://www.graysonhobby.com/catalog/gh221206v2brushlessoutrunnermotor-p-398.html which until yesterday was still on the RC Powers Master Parts List... :( But no matter, some folks might have one laying around or are looking at it as a choice for this plane.

In the plane, it performed very much the same as the RC Timer 2212-6 2200 Kv motor, on the bench it was a tiny bit more efficient in that it drew less amps for essentially the same thrust as the RCT motor, perhaps due to slightly higher quality bearings, but it is tough to argue the price as this motor is $23.99 and the RC Timer motor is less than $10.

At the field today I tested the 6x4 APC prop and the 6x3 EMP prop, I noticed only a slight edge in initial acceleration with the 6x3 EMP prop and other than that the performance was much the same, maybe a little more endurance with the 6x3 EMP prop based on how much I had left in my battery when I landed.

My plane today weighed 18.5 oz with the 1600 Mah battery, I used a Turnigy Plush 30A ESC and everything worked just great. Good little combo, but again for price and equal performance I would probably have to go with the RC Timer 2212-6 motor if I was looking for a motor in this weight and power category.

Not the prettiest looking plane, but still flies awesome!

Cheers,

Scott

RC POWERS MIG29 V3 AT 25 OZ WITH NTM PROP DRIVE 2700 MOTOR

Hi everyone -

I just finished up my latest Mig29 V3 with a paint scheme inspired by a paint job of a Mig 29 of the 28th Guards Fighter Aviation Regiment which last flew the Mig 29 before being disbanded in 2009http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/28th_Guards_Fighter_Aviation_Regiment. This unit fought with distinction in WW II and Korea and was awarded the Order of Kutuzov http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_Kutuzovand six officers who served in this unit were made Heroes of the Soviet Union and the Russian Federation.



I have not put any insignia or decals on it yet, the cold, wet weather and decals don't seem to get along right now...

After watching and admiring all the amazing things that Airflow from the RC Powers group has been doing with his heavy Mig 29 V3, it inspired me to want to see what I could do with it in a weight range between where Airflow is and where I am with my lighter German Mig. I also wanted to build it so that I could try out the NTM 2200 motor on a 7x4 prop when that arrives from HK (probably not til after Christmas...)

So my AUW with 2200 3S battery is at 701 grams/24.7 oz which is about 5 oz heavier than where I am with my German Mig. Most of the weight comes from extra reinforcement to handle the punishment of the NTM motors, the bigger motor, ESC and battery. 

My build -

• 6mm Depron with Kf4 airfoils made of paperless dollar store foam. Constructed primarily with Foam Tac glue with a few dabs of other types of glue here and there as needed;
• Power setup currently is the NTM Prop Drive 2700 Kv motor with 6x4 APC prop, Turnigy Plush 60A ESC, 2200 3S battery 45-90 C, I will also be doing some flying on this setup with a 4S battery. I just bench tested this motor and got 42.2 oz of thrust on a 3S and 54.3 oz of thrust on a 4S with the 6x4 APC prop;
• control surfaces are elevons, ailerons (switch selectable as spoilerons for slow speed/high alpha) and rudders. I'm using a 6 ch receiver compatible with my Turnigy er9x setup, elevon and aileron servos all have their own channels, rudders connected by Y harness;
• all leading edges bevelled and sanded as well as a good general sanding of the whole plane to provide as sleek an aerodynamic profile as possible; and
• paint is acrylic craft paint from the dollar store brushed on free hand to create the camo pattern. The camo is granite grey, tan and forest green, the nose cone is pewter grey.

My thrust to weight ratio should be about 1.7:1 with the NTM 2700 on 3S which is just slightly less than my German Mig and my wing loading is 8.6 oz/sq ft, compared to about 6.5 oz/sq ft on my lighter Mig. I am interested to see how the higher wing loading handles. One key thing that Airflow mentioned in one of his videos after he lightened his Mig up a bit was how it didn't have quite the same momentum in aerobatic maneuvers as did his heavier Mig with the Turnigy 3648 motor, so since I am going the other way, I am interested in seeing and feeling how this plane handles at a heavier weight.

Mods that I made from the stock build -

• opened up the prop slot back to give more room for the longer NTM motor;
• arranged my servos and pushrods so that nothing runs in a way that it will interfere with the prop slot so I can try the 7" prop on the NTM 2200;
• I cut two triangular vents on the sides of the fuselage and one each on the top hatch and bottom of the fuselage in the electronics bay to help maximize airflow over my components since with the 4S on the 2700 motor and the 7 inch prop on the 2200 motor will be pushing the gear pretty hard, I wanted to optimize airflow; and
• I enlarged the rudder surfaces by moving the hinge line forward about 3/8" of an inch.

Just back from the field after completing the maiden and starting the "dialing in" process of my new 25 oz Mig 29 V3. I also took my lighter 20 oz Mig to the field to do a bit of a "fly off" to see what difference if any there were in performance and handling.



Amazingly, the handling and performance even with a 5 oz weight increase was very similar between the two planes. I noticed with the heavier Mig and slightly lower thrust to weight, different motor and prop that the punch and acceleration was not quite as good as the lighter Mig, but I think top end speed was very similar.

The heavier Mig did require a little bit more pull in the turns with the higher wing loading, but was still exceptionally responsive and agile even with the extra weight. I would say the lighter Mig had a slightly faster "first step" response when put into a maneuver, but the heavier Mig caught up quickly and felt a little smoother through aerobatic sequences and turning. 

Initially I had to be a bit more cautious in turns as with the heavier weight I found it "carved" into the turns a little harder than the lighter Mig. Not that the lighter Mig feels like it is floating, but perhaps just a little more forgiving in the turns.

The heavier Mig carries it's momentum a little better through pitch maneuvers like loops and with the extra weight of the ESC just to once side of the centreline was more responsive in rolls, not by much, but a little bit.

Overall, the handling and stability in all speed regimes is excellent with the heavier weight, I tried a little bit of high alpha and it felt more stable at the heavier weight than lighter.

My CofG on this plane continues to be bang on 3" behind where the leading edge extension and the wing meet which I believe is maybe an inch behind the CofG on the plans. It trimmed up pretty easily, I moved the battery forward about 1/4" to get rid of any elevator trim and about 1/4" right of centreline to help compensate for torque roll.

So I am now excited for the weather to improve again, my window of flying closed too quickly today due to fog and heavy mist... in order to try it out on 4S. I will also eventually be trying the NTM 2200 on a 7x4 prop which will bring my thrust to weight ratio up considerably based on the thrust numbers Airflow got with this setup in testing, 58 oz of thrust versus the 42.2 I get with the 2700 on a 3S and 6x4 prop.

So both Migs are amazing, hard at this point to pick a favorite, the lighter Mig is perfect on dead calm days and I think the heavier Mig will be great when there is wind...

I managed to get some video shot of it flying, starting the "dialing in" process...:)

Cheers,

Scott

RCP F22 V3 MORE SLOW FLYING TESTING

I had my F22 out again a couple days ago doing some more serious testing on slow flying characteristics.  I have said before and Dave Powers has also said that the F22 does not like to fly so, but I thought I would try a couple different things just to see what happened.

There was a tiny bit of wind less than 5 mph, but it was there.  So when flying without spoilerons, I was able to fly at about 35-40% throttle without too much problem except when I went from a tail wind to a headwind, the plane would stop turning, stall and then roll opposite to the control inputs I had in!  Never had a plane do that before on me.

With spoilerons, I was steering (or trying to steer) with rudders and discovered very quickly that I either didn't have enough rudder throw (I am only using 5 gr plastic gear servos as I didn't really plan on doing any slow fly testing), or the rudder surfaces themselves are too small.

Here is some video of the flight

After posting the video, Dave Powers commented on the RC Powers website the forward swept trailing edge of the wing, forward swept ailerons and vertical stabs blocked by the body all contributed to it's inherent instability at slow speeds compared to the Mig29 and F18 V3s which are the opposite.  This makes sense as does the fact that the control surfaces are all so close together and if the airflow is "dirty" or non-existent, then they are probably all affected the same way at the same time, giving little control ability at slower speeds.  Just some of my theory anyway.

Bottom line, this is a muscle car and needs to be driven like one, not like Grandma's Buick going to church on Sunday, but it was fun testing!

Cheers,

Scott

RCP F22 V3 SLOW FLIGHT TESTING AND NEW MOTOR

Hi everyone -

I had my F22 V3 from RC Powers out for several flights in the last couple of days and have been pushing myself to try and fly slow (less than 50% throttle) without mishap.  I had been trying it with spoilerons at about 7/8" inch deflection with the SMJV2 motor setup which gave me an overall weight of about 23 oz.  I reduced the deflection down to about 1/2" and it seemed to fly pretty well at 35-40% throttle straight and level, needing a little more power in the turns to keep it steady.

It became basically a 2 channel plane then, no real elevator input needed to keep the nose up and stable, I was controlling speed and sink rate with throttle and turning the plane with rudder.  It was still a challenge and I had to be on it all the time, one little slip up in throttle management and the tail sank and it kind of "parked" itself in the sky.

Since I have been having such amazing luck with the Focal Price 2700 Kv motor with a 6x3 EMP prop in other planes like the F18 and Mig 29 V3s and the FRC Foamies Su37 MK2, I decided it was time to give it a try in my F22.  I basically would be getting the same thrust but overall weight would be reduced by 1 oz.  I had been hesitant to do this as I was really liking that 6.4 oz/sq ft wing loading that is working so well for me on all the V3 planes.  With the new motor and a 2200 Mah battery, my new AUW is 22.1 oz, wing loading is now 6.1 oz/sq ft.

It worked really well with the new motor I am happy to report.  I put a little more expo in the ailerons to smooth out the roll factor in turns and it handles even smoother now.  I flew it with an 1800 Mah battery and found that it almost felt a little bit too light for my liking, I just didn't have the nice "feel" that I like to have with this plane.

So, I tried a little slow flying with the lighter weight and lower wing loading and found it flew better without spoilerons at slow speed!  I was able to keep the power around 40% and with gentle aileron input it turned nicely.  It is still a challenge and I have to stay on top of it, it doesn't stay as stable at slow speed as the F18 or the Mig 29, but it is a nice challenge and looks cool as it cruises by!

So I need to do more flying and testing with the new motor and get it dialed in just right again and then hopefully do some more slow flying and get video of it.

Cheers,

Scott

RC POWERS F18 V3 "THRASHFEST" OR "CRASHFEST"... :)

It was a beautiful clear, cold day yesterday, so I took advantage of it and had an awesome day flying at the field with my FRC Foamies Su37 MK2 and my RC Powers F18 V3.

There was a bit of a breeze now and then, not strong, but swirling, so I put a 2200 Mah battery in my F18 to help with that which gives me that ideal weight of about 21.5 oz that seems to be "magic" for me.  So I decided to really put it through it's paces and luckily the RC Gods were with me as I had four "unscheduled" landings and the plane survived all of them!

Here is the video -

Looking back on all the planes I have flown that have been responsible for big "turning points" in my RC journey, this is the latest and greatest.  In fact three planes probably stand out as the most significant planes I have flown to get where I am today -

1. the RC Powers F35 V2, the one that started it all, heavy, not too pretty, elevons only and Kf2, the first parkjet I ever flew;
2. the RC Powers Mig29 V1, recommended to me by Jay and Greg from FRC Foamies to rebuild my confidence after writing off two of my nicer planes in one day, that plane though simple (profile construction and elevons only) is what really helped my flying skills "take off", I put hundreds of flights into that plane (built two of them); and
3. the RC Powers F18 V3, it has really helped me take my skills to a while new level in how low and close and I can fly to myself and know that the plane will do what I ask of it without biting back, it is truly one of the best (if not the best) all round parkjet I have ever flown.  The Mig29 V3 would be a very close contender, but the F18 V3 is probably my all time favorite.

Anyway, having said that, it is probably time to dust off my F22 V3 and take it flying today, time to push the skills even harder!

Cheers,

Scott

BENCH AND FLIGHT TESTING RC TIMER 2208/8 2600 KV MOTOR

Hi everyone -

Several weeks ago, I tested this little motor from RC Timer, works really well for planes in the 16-19 oz weight category. http://www.rctimer.com/product_112.html

This motor is quite light, 56 grams with prop, X mount and connectors installed.

I ran through the same series of tests as I did with many previous motors, I tested with a Turnigy Plush 30A ESC as 30A ESC is what RC Timer recommends, I tested 6x4 APC and 6x3 and 6x4 EMP props on low, medium and high settings on my ESC to find the best setup for what I'm looking to get out of this motor.

Here are the results

6x4 APC prop on 50% throttle -

• ESC at low timing - 13.3A/155.8W/429 gr/15.1 oz of thrust/thrust to motor weight ratio 7.7:1, 1.1 oz of thrust per amp drawn;
• ESC at medium timing - 14A/167.3W/445 gr/15.7 oz of thrust/thrust to motor weight ratio 7.9:1/1.1 oz of thrust per amp drawn; and
• ESC at high timing - 14.3A/174.3W/431 gr/15.2 oz of thrust/thrust to motor weight ratio - 7.7:1/1.06 oz of thrust per amp drawn.

6x4 APC prop on 100% throttle -

• ESC at low timing - 28.7A/332.7W/695 gr/24.5 oz of thrust/thrust to motor weight ratio 12.4:1/0.85 oz of thrust per amp drawn;
• ESC at medium timing - 29A/321.7W/720 gr/25.5 oz of thrust/thrust to motor weight ratio 12.8:1/0.8 oz of thrust per amp drawn; and
• ESC at high timing - 30.6A/335.5W/720 gr/25.5 oz of thrust/thrust to motor weight ratio of 12.8:1/0.8 oz of thrust per amp drawn.

6x3 EMP prop on 50% throttle -

• ESC at low timing - 12A/138.9W/485 gr/17.1 oz of thrust/thrust to motor weight ratio of 8.7:1/1.4 oz of thrust per amp drawn;
• ESC at medium timing - 12.9A/149.4W/515 gr/18.2 oz of thrust/thrust to weight ratio of 8.7:1/1.4 oz of thrust per amp drawn; and
• ESC at high timing - 14.2A/164.8W/520 gr/18.3 oz of thrust/thrust to motor weight ratio of 9.3:1/1.3 oz of thrust per amp drawn.

6x3 EMP prop on 100% throttle -

• ESC at low timing - 24.5A/266.2W/795 gr/28 oz of thrust/thrust to motor weight ratio 14.2:1/1.1 oz of thrust per amp drawn;
• ESC at medium timing - 28.8A/332W/805 gr/28.4 oz of thrust/14.4:1/1.0 oz of thrust per amp drawn; and
• ESC at high timing - 27.9A/329W/835 gr/29.5 oz of thrust/thrust to motor weight ratio of 14.9:1/1.06 oz of thrust per amp drawn.

6x4 EMP prop on 50% throttle -

• ESC at low timing - 12A/140.7W/395 gr/13.9 oz of thrust/thrust to motor weight ratio 7.0:1/1.2 oz of thrust per amp drawn;
• ESC at medium timing - 12.6A/147.1W/410 gr/14.5 oz of thrust/thrust to motor weight ratio 7.3:1/1.2 oz of thrust per amp drawn; and
• ESC at high timing - 13.7A/160.5W/415 gr/14.6 oz of thrust/thrust to motor weight ratio 7.4:1/1.1 oz of thrust per amp drawn.

6x4 EMP prop at 100% throttle - 

• ESC at low timing - 28.4A/315.7W/663 gr/23.4 oz of thrust/thrust to motor weight ratio of 11.8:1/0.8 oz of thrust per amp drawn;
• ESC at medium timing - 29A/311.1W/671 gr/23.7 oz of thrust/thrust to motor weight ratio of 12.0:1/0.8 oz of thrust per amp drawn; and
• ESC at high timing - 31A/360W/675 gr/23.5 oz of thrust/thrust to motor weight ratio 12.1:1/0.8 oz of thrust per amp drawn.

The 6x3 EMP prop seems to jump out as the best prop for this motor on the bench, so I won't even bother testing the other two props.  What I did test at the field was the difference between high and low ESC timing as I was getting about 1.5 oz more thrust with high timing than I was with low, but at a higher amp draw.

Here is the video I shot of the field testing

I did definitely get a little more snap and thrust from this motor at high ESC timing, but the motor ran very warm, warmer than I like for the overall health of the setup, so I reverted to low, great performing little motor that definitely punches above it's weight!

I now use it in my FRC Foamies F35 600 which is about 16.5 oz, works awesome!

Cheers,

Scott

FRC FOAMIES SU37 MK2

I recently completed a lighter weight FRC Foamies Su37 MK2.  I had previously build an Su35 MK2, but built it way too heavy and it just never flew right, so I wanted to build this one much lighter

My build -

• 6mm depron with 4mm dollar store foam Kf4 airfoils, mostly Foam Tac glue with epoxy and Gorilla Glue (my new favorite combo for motor mounts) and epoxy for the control horns;
• 6 servo setup using RC Timer 9 gram nylon gear servos, elevons, ailerons (mixed as spoilerons, but I think I will delete this mix, not using it too much) and rudders;
• power setup is the Focal Price 2700 Kv motor with 6x3 EMP prop, a 40A Turnigy Plush ESC, 1600/1800 Mah battery, giving me good solid 5-6 minute flight times;
• all leading edges bevelled and sanded, paint is based on the Russian Flag colors of white, blue and red, used dollar store acrylic craft paint; and
• AUW with battery is 555 grams/19.6 oz which in calm conditions is a perfect weight for this plane.

I am loving this Focal Price motor again for this size of plane, gives me such awesome performance for not too much money or weight.

I did a fly off with the RC Powers Mig29 V3 and found the Su37 MK2 to be more nimble than the Mig, possibly due to it being 5.5" shorter and having a 1" shorter wingspan, but I think that the Mig is just a bit more stable overall.

I have shot a couple videos of it flying 

It is an awesome little plane with lots of versatility from a standpoint of power and control setups.

Cheers,

Scott