FRC FOAMIES F35 600 BUILD COMPLETE

Hi everyone -

Playing a bit more catchup as I just finished up my 4th F35 600 build as I had recycled all my other F35s and wanted to have one in my "hangar".  I decided to go with a Vancouver Canucks inspired paint scheme.

I didn't quite make it at the weight I predicted, I was hoping for 16.5 oz with a 1600 Mah battery, but I ended up at 470 gr/16.6 oz, so not too far off!

My build -

• 6mm depron with Foam Tac glue and a little hot glue and epoxy when needed;
• Kf4 airfoils made from dollar store foam board;
• control surfaces active - elevons, ailerons and rudders on a six servo setup, 9 gr RC Timer nylon gear servos for the elevons and 5 gr HXT 500 nylon gear servos for the ailerons and rudders, so far no special mixes of any kind;
• Power setup - RC Timer 2212-6 2200 Kv motor with a 6x3 EMP prop, 30A Turnigy Plush ESC with timing set to medium (this was the best setup I found in my recent round of motor testing), battery is 3s 30-40C discharge;
• Using a 6 channel HK TR6A V2 receiver compatible with my Turnigy er9x radiohttp://hobbyking.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idproduct=12901 elevons and ailerons each have their own independent channel, rudders are on a Y harness;
• I filled the larger grooves with scrap dollar store foam glued in with a thin bead of Foam Tac, all leading edges bevelled and sanded;
• Paint is dollar store acrylic craft paint, the black is actually done with magic marker from the dollar store; and
• pushrods are scratchbuilt with 2mm carbon rod, clevis from Hobby King and quick connects from RC timer.

I made a few changes from my last build, I downsized the rudders a bit as I found with the bigger rudders I had before that it was very sensitive in the yaw if I used rudders, it did some cool rudder rolls, but sometimes got too sensitive, so I downsized those a bit.

Since the grass will more often than not be wet now that fall is here and I may even end up landing on the snow at times, I put all my electronics up top to hopefully keep them dry and didn't cut out the lower electronics bay as per the plans.

I did put some cooling vents in the side of the fuselage behind the canopy to help improve airflow through the electronics bay up top. Where my battery is in the picture is pretty much neutral with the CofG on the plans, so the bulk of the weight is right around the CofG which will be very good for handling and aerobatics. I also tested it with a 2200 battery and I have plenty of room if I need to add a little more weight to help in the wind.


Hope to be able to maiden in the next few days and will get some video!

Flight video of my F35 600.  I have since swapped out this motor with the RC Timer 2208/8 2600 Kv motor, works great, about 11 grams lighter and lots of thrust with a 6x3 EMP prop.

Cheers,

Scott

RC POWERS MIG 29 V3 COMPLETE

Playing a little bit of catchup today, I maidened my German Mig 29 painted in JG73 colors a few days ago.  It flies amazing, at the weight I am, the FP 2700 motor is a great match to give me amazing acceleration, good high end speed and vertical.  I'm getting almost 6 minutes flight time out of an 1800 Mah battery.

I've also flown it for a few flights since then with a 2200 Mah battery and it handles the extra weight beautifully.  Not as fast, but with the battery moved back a bit closer to the CofG, it tumbles like crazy.  I now have the throws up to 100%, but left 60% expo on the ailerons and elevons and that seems to be the best setup for me as it helps me keep things smooth in the turns.  The 2200 battery definitely helps it stay more stable in the wind and gives me about 7:30 flight times.

Cheers,

Scott

BENCH TESTING OF THE GRAYSON HOBBY SUPER MEGAJET V2 (SMJV2)

Just finished up testing another motor, the Grayson Hobby Super MegaJet V2http://www.graysonhobby.com/catalog/ghsupermegajetv2brushlessoutrunnermotor-p-585.html

Initially I was only going to test it on the 6x4 APC, but decided to test it on the 6x3 and 6x4 EMPs as well since the 6x3 EMP has been giving me great results on some of the other motors. I used a Turnigy Plush 40A ESC and 3S batteries, but with a 45-90C discharge as these would be the 2200 Mah batteries I would put in a plane if I was to use this motor.

6x4 APC prop at 50% throttle -

• ESC at low setting - 14.9A/178.8W/478 gr/16.9 oz of thrust;
• ESC at medium setting - 15.5A/186.7W/530 gr/18.7 oz of thrust; and
• ESC at high setting - 15.9A/195.2W/540 gr/19.1 oz of thrust.

6x4 APC prop at 100% throttle -

• ESC at low setting - 26.9A/313W/770 gr/27.2 oz of thrust;
• ESC at medium setting - 29.5A/342.8W/870gr/30.7 oz of thrust; and
• ESC at high setting - 31.2A/376.6W/880 gr/31 oz of thrust.

6x3 EMP prop at 50% throttle -

• ESC at low setting - 13.2A/152.4W/508 gr/17.9 oz of thrust;
• ESC at medium setting - 14.3A/174.4W/590 gr/20.8 oz of thrust; and
• ESC at high setting - 14.8A/183.6W/610 gr/21.5 oz of thrust.

6x3 EMP prop at 100% throttle -

• ESC at low setting - 23.8A/285.4W/848 gr/29.9 oz of thrust;
• ESC at medium setting - 27.7A/328.1W/1030 gr/36.3 oz of thrust; and
• ESC at high setting - 27.7A/325W/1030 gr/36.3 oz of thrust.

6x4 EMP prop at 50% throttle -

• ESC at low setting - 17.2A/212W/530 gr/18.7 oz of thrust;
• ESC at medium setting - 15.4A/178.4W/454 gr/16 oz of thrust; and
• ESC at high setting - 16.2A/198W/520 gr/18.3 oz of thrust.

6x4 EMP prop at 100% throttle -

• ESC at low setting - 31.8A/385.4W/860 gr/30.3 oz of thrust;
• ESC at medium setting - 29.4A/320W/780 gr/27.5 oz of thrust; and
• ESC at high setting - 33A/378.8W/890 gr/31.4 oz of thrust.

As strange as it may seem, based on the numbers I tested yesterday on the SMJV2, it seems like the best performance would again be from the 6x3 EMP prop, that seems to be a very successful prop among the motors I have tested thus far. I am excited to put one on my plane (I still have the SMJV2 in my lightweight F18) and take it to the field for some more testing.

Anyway, going by the numbers I got in testing yesterday, the best results and the one I would put in my plane. Based on the quite low amp draw that I got, I may also try putting a 30A ESC in the plane to lighten the load a bit. The highest amp draw I saw for the setup I am looking at is 27.6, so I think my Turnigy Plush 30A ESC should be able to handle that.

I worked out some more numbers comparing thrust produced versus weight added by the motor and thrust produced versus amps drawn. The SMJV2 I have with prop, X mount and bullet connectors attached ready to go in the plane weighs 91 gr/3.2 oz.

Based on numbers I collected yesterday, this is the setup I would use, your numbers and preference may differ -

• prop I would use - 6x3 EMP;
• ESC timing I would use - high;
• at 50% throttle, this setup gives me 14.8A/183.6W/610 gr/21.5 oz of thrust;
• at 100% throttle, this setup gives me 27.6A/325W/1030 gr/36.3 oz of thrust;
• at 50% throttle, my thrust to motor weight ratio is 6.7:1 and my thrust is 1.5 oz of thrust per amp drawn; and
• at 100% throttle, my thrust to motor weight ratio is 11.3:1 and my thrust to amps drawn is 1.3 oz per amp.

Again, I am going to have to test this out some more at the field to see what happens with my plane, I am surprised by these lower numbers for a motor of this size, it actually seems very efficient with this setup. 

The next most efficient setup would be with the 6x4 APC prop at high ESC timing, but the high end thrust does not seem to be as good as I would have expected. The 6x4 EMP prop does not seem to be a very efficient prop for this motor at any timing setting.

Cheers,

Scott

BENCH TESTING OF THE POWER UP ZOOM 450 MOTOR FROM HEADS UP RC

Just finished up some more testing on another motor, the Power Up Zoom 450 from Heads Up RChttp://www.headsuphobby.com/Power-Up-450-Zoom-Outrunner-Brushless-Motor-H-225.htm

I tested on the 6x4 APC, 6x3 and 6x4 EMP props at low, medium and high timing settings on my ESC. I used a Turnigy Plush 40A ESC, but based on the numbers I got from the wattmeter I could easily use a 30A ESC to save a little weight. Again I tested at 50% and 100% throttle to determine best cruising efficiency and high end power and efficiency.

Here are the numbers for the 6x4 APC prop at 50% throttle -

• ESC at low setting - 14A/166.8W 520 gr/18.3 oz of thrust;
• ESC at medium setting - 13.2A/158W/515 gr/18.2 oz of thrust; and
• ESC at high setting - 14.6A/172.1W/560 gr/19.8 oz of thrust.

6x4 APC at 100% throttle -

• ESC at low setting - 25A/285.6W/820 gr/28.9 oz of thrust;
• ESC at medium setting - 25.9A/291.5W/840 gr/29.6 oz of thrust; and
• ESC at high setting - 26A/293.3W/830 gr/29.3 oz of thrust.

6x3 EMP at 50% throttle -

• ESC at low setting - 13A/150W/590 gr/20.8 oz of thrust;
• ESC at medium setting - 12.6A/147.5W/580 gr/20.5 oz of thrust; and
• ESC at high setting - 13.8A/158.6W/580 gr/20.5 oz of thrust.

6x3 EMP at 100% throttle -

• ESC at low setting - 22.3A/250W/848 gr/29.9 oz of thrust;
• ESC at medium setting - 22.9A/253.8W/898 gr/31.7 oz of thrust; and
• ESC at high setting - 24.9A/287.6W/860 gr/30.3 oz of thrust.

6x4 EMP at 50% throttle -

• ESC at low setting - 14.5A/174.1W/522 gr/18.4 oz of thrust;
• ESC at medium setting - 15A/177W/540 gr/19.1 oz of thrust; and
• ESC at high setting - 14.8A/181.5W/534 gr/18.8 oz of thrust.

6x4 EMP at 100% throttle -

• ESC at low setting - 27A/309W/760 gr/26.8 oz of thrust;
• ESC at medium setting - 28.4A/324.5W/792 gr/27.9 oz of thrust; and
• ESC at high setting - 28.6A/319W/814 gr/28.7 oz.

I did a bit more distilling down of the numbers from my test today on the Zoom 450 motor and based on the numbers I got, this is the setup I would use. Please don't take it as the only setup to use on this motor, depending on your motor, ESC, etc, you might get better numbers than me, this is just what I got today and how I would run this motor in my planes.

I did some calculations based on thrust produced versus weight of the motor and thrust versus amps drawn to determine if the weight and efficiency of the motor produce good results for the overall performance of my plane. The Zoom 450 that I used with prop, X mount and bullet connectors weighs 87 gr/3.07 oz.

The setup I would use -

• prop - well balanced 6x3 EMP;
• ESC timing set at medium;
• at 50% throttle this gives me 12.6A/147.5W/580 gr/20.5 oz of thrust;
• at 100% throttle this gives me 22.9A/253.8W/898 gr/31.7 oz of thrust;
• at 50% throttle I am getting 6.1:1 thrust to motor weight ratio, but an excellent 1.6 oz of thrust per amp drawn, this is one of the best mid range efficiency results I have seen in all the motors I have tested; and
• at 100% throttle I am getting a 10.3:1 thrust to motor weight ratio and 1.3 oz of thrust per amps drawn, again a very efficient ratio and this is also the highest amount of thrust I saw in testing today.

I have tested and flown this motor in a few planes, it is a very solid and strong motor, I think the numbers with the right prop and ESC settings give great mid range performance and pretty decent high end performance compared to some other motors. After the 6x3 EMP prop, it is probably most efficient based on my data on the 6x4 APC and not very efficient at all on the 6x4 EMP, but again your results may differ.

Cheers,

Scott

PERFORMANCE COMPARISON RC TIMER 2212-6 AND TURNIGY D2826/6 MOTORS

Since these two motors, the RC Timer 2212-6 2200 Kv http://www.rctimer.com/index.php?gOo=goods_details.dwt&goodsid=116&productname= and the Turnigy D2826/6 2200 Kv http://hobbyking.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idproduct=12919 are both very popular parkjet motors and are on the RC Powers Master Parts List, I thought I would do a bit of a performance comparison.

I have been distilling down the numbers even more on the testing that I have done thus far and have come up with some numbers to determine thrust produced versus motor weight added to the plane and thrust produced versus amps drawn. I may be off the mark, but I think the numbers of thrust versus amps drawn may be an equation of efficiency if I ask myself, how much power am I getting for energy consumed, the "best bang for the buck", so I will be publishing some of those numbers in this thread over coming days. There are interesting trade offs between props and timing settings, but I think the optimum setups (at least from the data I gathered) are easy to determine. And again, it is all based on how you like to fly, but I think most of us want to get maximum power output for minimum power input.

Anyway, I decided I would look at the numbers for the 2212-6 2200 Kv motor and the D2826/6 2200 Kv motor and give my opinion on what I would consider the best setup that I would use in my planes.

RC Timer 2212-6 2200 Kv (as you may have read in a previous post, I weighed this motor with a prop attached, X motor mount and bullet connectors also attached, exactly as it would go in my plane, the weight I got was 64 gr/2.26 oz) -

• prop I would use - 6x3 EMP;
• timing I would use on my ESC - medium;
• thrust numbers at 50% throttle - 542 gr/19.1 oz; and
• thrust numbers at 100% throttle - 825 gr/29 oz
• on this setting at 50% throttle, I get an 8.5:1 thrust to motor weight ratio and a 1.6 oz of thrust per amp drawn. This is the best mid range performance of any prop and ESC setting I get with this motor (the next best result I got was 1.4 oz of thrust per amp);
• on this setting at 100% throttle, I get a 12.9:1 thrust to motor weight ratio and a 1.2 oz of thrust per amp drawn. It is slightly less than the best thrust to amp drawn I got at 100% throttle (which was 1.3), but for the great mid range performance, I am happy to sacrifice a little bit of efficiency at top end.

Turnigy D2826/6 2200 Kv motor - motor weight is 67 gr -

• prop I would use - 6x3 EMP;
• timing I would use on my ESC - medium;
• thrust numbers at 50% throttle - 535 gr/18.9 oz;
• thrust numbers at 100% throttle - 860 gr/30.3 oz;
• on this setting at 50% throttle, I get a 8:1 thrust to motor weight ratio and a 1.5 oz of thrust per amp drawn. This is not the best thrust to motor weight ratio I got, the best was 8.5:1 on high setting, but the high setting on the ESC with this prop only gave a 1.3 oz of thrust per amp drawn, so not as efficient; and
• on this setting at 100% throttle, I get a 12.8:1 thrust to motor weight ratio and a 1.3 oz of thrust per amp drawn. I get a better thrust to motor weight ratio on low setting with this prop of 13:1, but the efficiency is down to 1.1 oz of thrust per amp drawn.

Anyway, I know these numbers can be a bit dizzying, but based on the data I collected, these motors are very similar, the 2212-6 is a bit more powerful and efficient at mid range power setting, while the D2826/6 gets the edge at full throttle by a small margin.

The difference in weight is negligible at 3 grams really, both will work well on a 30A ESC. The D2826/6 draws slightly more amps at mid range, but their top end amp draw on this prop and ESC timing is pretty much identical at 23.5/23.6 which is very good and should help both motors last longer even if you fly like I do and like to pound the throttle pretty hard. The RC Timer website says the 2212-6 should be able to swing a 7x3 or 7x4 prop, so swinging a 6x3 should be a little easier on the motor (it doesn't give a max current figure). The HK website says the D2826/6 is rated for 34A max current on a 7x4 on 2S or 5x5 on 3S, obviously with the 6x3 EMP I was well below that.

I think with the performance numbers I looked at these setups would give me the best overall performance from a standpoint of thrust and efficiency, with a few give and takes to get best overall performance from mid to high end throttle and would still allow both motors to run well for a long time.

I guess based on the numbers and that the motors are very close with these setups, it would come down to personal preference or what you had available.

Anyway, again, these are based on numbers that I collected, nothing overly scientific, they have certainly been very helpful to me in determining prop type, ESC size and timing setting and hopefully might help you try something that will allow you to maximize your motor's performance!

Cheers,

Scott